金融时报记者：我的问题关于青岛中石化的爆发。中石化事件其中一个原因是因为城市化了，城市扩大了，没有人知道地下是什么样的管，什么样的设备。你们在规划里面，怎么样解决像这样的问题？因为我估计不只是青岛一个城市，可能别的城市也有同样的问题，我不知道哪个部门最适合回答这个问题。
Financial
Times: My
question is in regards to the Qingdao Sinopec explosions. One reason cited for
the accident was urbanization. As the city expands, nobody knows what kind of
pipelines or equipment has been placed underneath its surface. In your
planning, how will you deal with such issues? Because I am guessing that there
are such problems in other cities besides Qingdao. I don’t know which government
department can give the answer.
齐骥：我不负责这项工作，可能回答得不太专业。就我的理解，对您刚才讲的青岛的例子，谈一下我的看法。应该说在中国的好多城市是逐步发展形成的。比如说有些地方基础设施本来是放在城郊区的，包括污水处理厂也好，垃圾填埋场也好，一开始的时候是建造在城市的郊区，随着城市的扩张，结果就把原来设计建设在城边郊区的一些设施变成城里了，因为城市的扩大把它包围掉了。此外还有一些所谓“城中村”，没有一个是在城市里人为建造的，一定是原来的自然村落由于城市蔓延，最后把它包围了，村本来应该在城市的外部，结果变成了城市的内部了，所以社会上俗称为“城中村”。刚才你谈到的一个问题还包括重化工的企业，那里我也去过，它是最近十几年才发展成一个城市的，原来它确确实实是在城市的边缘。在城市的规划建设过程当中，确实使一些原来在城市边界建造的这些设施，包括基础设施和工业设施，实实在在地讲不适合在城市中心区域的，但是历史就这么演变过来的，有这样一个发展的过程。
Qi Ji: I’m not in charge of
such projects and therefore may not be able to give you a very professional
answer. As you already mentioned the Qingdao incident, I will discuss some of
my opinions on the matter. I can say that many cities in China are developed
and formed gradually, which means some of their infrastructure was initially
built in the suburban areas of the city, such as sewage treatment plants or
garbage landfills. However, as the city expands, plants and equipment, designed
to remain outside the city, are now encircled by the newly expanding city areas
and hence become part of the city’s inner infrastructure.
Plus, there are a number of
so-called “villages within a city,” none of them deliberately built “inside”
the city. They are just villages that were originally created outside the city
and have gradually been surrounded by new city expansions – hence becoming part
of the inner city.
You also mentioned one heavy
petrochemical enterprise just now. I actually have been there. The city just
developed into a big one over the past decade. At first, the enterprise was
indeed located on the outskirts of the city. During that particular process of
a city’s layout construction, it is a fact that some of these “outside”
projects, including infrastructures and industry plants, have evolved into
these city centers. Frankly speaking, they are not fit to be situated in the
central area of a city, but this is just a matter of evolving progress -- and
we do actually see such a development process taking place.
这一次新型城镇化规划当中，特别提出了四线控制，有绿线、蓝线、紫线、黄线，绿线指的是保证绿化，蓝线指的是保证水源，紫线指的是保护文物，黄线是城市建设过程当中，凡是纳入到黄线控制内的，包括各种基础设施，也包括您刚才讲到的这些重化工的管道，它要严格跟城市的居住区、行政区分离的。这是新一版的规划当中，我们总结教训，特别强调下一步从事城市建设的同事可能会感觉到，无论是黄线、绿线、蓝线还是紫线，包括现在已经存在的红线，都是城市建设当中不可逾越的限制条件。
This time around, in the planning
for the new type of cities and towns, we specifically propose a four-line
control, including a green, blue, purple and yellow line. The green line stands
for a green belt, the blue line ensures a water resource, the purple line
signifies cultural relics protection and the yellow line controls
infrastructure. Various infrastructures which belong to the yellow line
control, including the petrochemical pipelines you mentioned, shall be strictly
separated from a city’s residential areas and administration areas. In the new
plans, we must summarize the lessons we have learned, especially for those
colleagues who will participate in city construction. They will know that no
matter whether they see a yellow, green, blue, purple or the currently existing
red line, these from the limitations that no city construction should go
beyond.
杨志明：我把刚才的家庭服务业的问题做一下补充。香港记者提得很好，徐主任讲了，新型城镇化和扩展服务业密切相关，同时发展服务业和农民工也紧密相关，因为现在农民工提供了城市基本公共服务，就目前来讲，在城市生产服务中找技工难，同样找一个好的家政工也很难。据统计，去年全国在城市中从事家庭服务业的农民工有两千万，而且家政服务、养老服务、病患陪护服务，还有社区照料服务，都有很大的扩展空间。所以说，通过对农民工进行技能培训，能使服务的人员愿意从业，使接受服务的家庭使用满意。这样的话，农民工在新型城镇化中拓展家庭服务业，将拉动就业、改善民生、扩大内需，还调整经济结构。
Yang
Zhiming:
I want to add some words to the question regarding the home services industry.
The Hong Kong reporter asked a good question. As Vice Minister Xu already said,
the new type of urbanization is closely related to the expanding service
industry and migrant workers are also closely related to the developing service
industry. Nowadays, migrant workers are providing the city with an essential public
service. For now, it remains very hard to find technicians in a city’s
production service and it is also hard to find home service workers.
According to statistics, there
are some 20 million migrant workers living in China’s cities. And there is
still much room for home services, nursing home services, patient care services
and community care services to grow. That is, after training the migrant
workers, they would have to be willing to engage in these service industries
and the families actually looking to hire, would have to be willing to employ
them. This way, migrant workers will expand the home service industry in the
new type of urbanization, will help raise employment rates, improve people’s
daily lives and promote domestic needs, as well as adjust the existing economic
structures.
郭卫民：建设部可能有专门负责城市规划的部门，将来如果大家感兴趣，我们请建设部专门负责城市规划的相关领导和专家开发布会和吹风会。
Guo
Weimin:
The Ministry of Construction (Ministry of Housing and Urban-Rural Development)
may establish one department solely responsible for city planning. If you are
interested in the future, we will invite the relevant leaders and experts of
the Ministry’s City Planning Department to hold a press conference and
briefing.
第一财经日报记者：昨天我也去北大参加了一个关于“两会”报告解读，包括城镇化的发布会，当时有一位学者提出这样一个问题，城镇化的核心是创造更多的就业，城镇化的过程是动态满足中国新增劳动力更好就业需要的过程，请问徐主任您对这句话怎么理解的，我们的就业如何满足他们的需要呢？
China
Business News:
I attended a meeting at Peking University interpreting the reports released
during the annual sessions of the NPC & CPPCC, in which a scholar raised
the idea that the core of urbanization was creating more jobs, and that the
process of urbanization is the process of better meeting the needs of the new
labor force. What is your understanding of this, Vice Minister Xu, and how is employment
going to meet the people’s needs?
徐宪平：就业的问题还是请杨志明副部长回答。
Xu
Xianping: I
will leave questions on employment to Vice Minister Yang Zhiming.
杨志明：中国是个劳动力资源大国，也是农业劳动力转移大国，还可以说是具有中国特色的农民工大国。农民工就业，在新型城镇化规划的指导下，主要是引导农民工有序外出就业，鼓励就地就近就业，扶持返乡创业。目前，农民工进城务工经商，总量在增长，增幅放缓，分布有变化，也就是说，农民工正在由无限供给走向有限供给。从今后，农民工就业形势要看新的变化，既有农民工就业难的问题，也有容纳农民工大的城市和企业，都程度不同地出现了招工难问题。普工的短缺反映的是农民工供给的有限性，技工的短缺反映的是农民工中高技能人才的短缺性。应该说，农民工就业招工两难的情况都是市场选择的结果。
Yang
Zhiming:
China is a country with rich labor resources and it is a major country for
agricultural labor transfer. It is also a large country of rural migrant
workers with Chinese characteristics. Under the guidance of the new
urbanization plan, we will focus on guiding rural migrant workers to seek
outside employment in an orderly manner, encouraging them to seek employment in
nearby areas, and supporting them in returning to their hometowns to establish
their own businesses. At present, the total number of rural migrant workers
heading to cities for employment and business is growing, but the growth rate
is declining and the places they choose is changing, which means that the
number of rural migrant workers will become limited. From now on, rural migrant
workers may have difficulty finding employment, while some big cities and
enterprises may have a lack of rural migrant workers. The lack of general
workers is due to the limited rural labor force, while the lack of skilled
workers demonstrates a lack of skilled rural migrant workers. The difficulties
faced by both rural migrant workers and enterprises are caused by the market.
我们实施新型城镇化规划，一是要加大农民工技能培训的力度，解决技工短板的问题。二是要大力发展第三产业、中小企业、劳动密集型产业，解决农民工就业需求持续增长的问题。三是要扶持有条件的农民工返乡创业。有人说，我们鼓励海外留学人员回国创业，是海归，那么在城市中学到技能、积累了资金、也懂点营销、还有点办厂魄力，当然和农村还有感情的“五有”农民工返乡创业，我们把他们称为“城归”。四是还要发挥全国就业信息网的作用，解决农民工跨地区就业信息互联互通的问题。总体上，具有中国特色的农业劳动力转移具有就业带动、保留地权、渐进落户的特点，为推动中国特色的新型城镇化发展，我们将继续做好农民工就业创业工作。谢谢。
When we carry out the new
urbanization plan, we should, first of all, enhance skills training for rural
migrant workers to address the lack of skilled workers. Second, we should
develop tertiary industry, small and medium-sized enterprises and labor-intensive
industries, to resolve the ever-growing demands of rural migrant workers.
Third, we should support rural migrant workers with resources to return to
their hometowns to start businesses. We call those who come back to China to
establish their businesses after studying abroad “overseas returnees.”
Similarly, we may also call these people “city returnees,” who obtain skills,
amass capital, know the basics about marketing, have the guts to establish
their own businesses and harbor an emotional affiliation to the countryside and
then come back to their hometowns after living in the city. Fourth, we should
develop the role of the nationwide employment information network to handle
information sharing in cross-region employment for rural migrant workers. Overall,
the transfer of the rural labor force with Chinese characteristics is
employment-driven, preserves ownership of land, and is settling down step by
step. We will further carry out our work concerning employment and
entrepreneurship for rural migrant workers in the process of promoting the new
urbanization in China. Thank you.
徐宪平：我补充一下。城镇化的过程是伴随着工业化发展，非农产业向城镇集聚、农业人口向城镇转移的过程。我用两个数字来说明，改革开放三十多年经济增速接近两位数，我们已经成为世界上第二大经济体。1978年的城镇化率是多少呢？17.9%，城镇人口是多少呢？1.7亿。现在已经到7.3亿人，可以看出，集聚经济的同时，创造了就业，也集聚了人口。
Xu
Xianping: Let
me add one thing. The process of urbanization entails non-agricultural
industries and the rural population moving to cities and towns, along with the
development of industrialization. I will demonstrate this with two figures.
China grew into the second largest economy in the world, with close to
double-digit growth for the past thirty strong years since reform and opening
up. What was the urbanization rate in 1978? 17.9 percent. How many people lived
in the urban areas back then? 170 million. Now that number has grown to 730
million. We can see that when we grow our economy, we also create more jobs and
concentrate the population. |
