王毅外长接受英国《金融时报》专访（中英对照）

中文版：中国外交部长王毅接受英国《金融时报》专访.doc

英文版：Foreign Minister Wang Yi’s Exclusive Interview with the Financial Times.doc

中国外交部长王毅接受英国《金融时报》专访

Foreign Minister Wang Yi’s Exclusive Interview with the Financial Times

 

2014年1月24日，正在瑞士达沃斯出席世界经济论坛2014年年会的中国外交部长王毅接受英国《金融时报》副主编、FT中文网总编辑张力奋专访。内容如下：

 

On 24 January, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi, who was attending the World Economic Forum Annual Meeting 2014 in Davos, Switzerland, gave an exclusive interview to Zhang Lifen, Associate Editor of the Financial Times and Editor-in-Chief of FTChinese.com. The following is a transcript of the interview.

 

张力奋：王毅外长，欢迎您来到瑞士达沃斯，出席2014世界经济论坛年会。我知道，这是历史上中国外长第一次到访达沃斯。习近平主席、李克强总理新一代领导人上任已近一年，外界对中国外交的新思路非常关注。您这次到访达沃斯，给大家带来最重要的信息是什么？

 

Zhang Lifen: Foreign Minister Wang Yi, welcome to Davos for the World Economic Forum annual meeting. I know you are the first Chinese foreign minister to come to Davos. It has been a year since President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang took office, and there has been a great deal of interest in China’s new diplomatic thinking and ideas. My first question for you is: what is the most important message you have brought with you to Davos?

 

王毅：就是3句话：讲述中国故事，传播中国信心，造福世界人民。中国取得的成就是当今世界最成功的故事。首先我们中国人自己要把这个成功的故事讲好，同时也希望负责任的媒体更加客观地报道中国。

 

Wang Yi: I am here in Davos mainly to tell the China story. By so doing, I hope to spread China’s confidence in its own future, which will bring benefit to people across the world. The China story is the greatest success story of our times. First, it falls upon us the Chinese to tell our success story well. And then, we hope that media organizations will write about China with a great sense of responsibility and in a more objective light.

 

要讲好中国的成功，我觉得最重要的是，针对国际上一些人对中国未来的各种各样猜测做好解释工作。不时有一些唱衰中国经济、唱衰中国发展的说法。比如说，中国在调整经济结构进程中取得7.7%的增长已经很好，但仍有一些声音对此提出质疑。所以不仅要讲中国的成功故事，还要把中国成功故事背后的原因和动力讲清楚，向世界传递中国对自己未来的自信。

 

In telling the world about China’s success story, the most important thing in my view is to make good explanations in response to the myriad of speculations about China’s future. We have heard from time to time people talking down the Chinese economy and China’s development. For example, China has achieved a 7.7% GDP growth rate in the course of economic structural adjustment. This is no mean feat. But still, some people have raised doubts about it. So we need to tell the world about China’s success story and, more importantly, explain clearly the reasons and driving force behind its success story and pass on to the world China’s confidence in its own future.

 

中国至少有3个其他国家不具有的独特优势：一是中国巨大的市场。中国市场按人口规模来算，是美国的近4倍。迄今为止，美国为全世界提供市场。我想，未来的中国肯定将向世界提供更大的市场。

 

China has at least three unique advantages that other countries don’t share. First, a huge market. In population terms, the Chinese market is nearly four times that of the United States. By now, the US market has been dubbed market of the world. I believe that as time goes by, China will offer an even bigger market to the world.

 

中国的发展并不平衡，特别是东西部发展不平衡，城乡之间发展也不平衡，这是我们要解决的问题，但恰恰是这个问题本身，给我们带来希望和需求。中国发展的巨大需求将波浪式释放出来，从东到西。这是推动中国经济持久发展的重要动力。

 

China’s development is uneven, especially between its eastern and western regions and between urban and rural areas. This is a challenge we have to address. But this very challenge has also brought us hope and demand. The massive demand that comes with China’s development will be unleashed wave upon wave, from eastern China to its western hinterland. This is a main driving force behind the sustained growth of the Chinese economy.

 

第二个独特优势是执政党优势。中国共产党拥有8600万党员，汇集了中国大批的精英。我们的用人和选人制度非常有效。首先有选举制度，不是那种街头式的一次性选举，而是在不同范围内多次投票。此外我们还有民主协商制度，反复地征求各方意见。这两方面机制的结合，使得中国培养的干部拥有丰富的经验、完整的履历，具备治国理政的能力。8000多万党员心往一处想，劲往一处使，还有什么困难不能克服？

 

The second unique advantage China enjoys is its ruling party. The Communist Party of China (CPC) has 86 million members, including many outstanding people. China’s system of selecting and appointing officials is very effective. First, our election system is not about street campaigns and one-off voting but multiple voting by different groups of people. Besides, our democratic consultation system requires comprehensive consultation with people from various sectors. A fusion of these two systems has ensured that Chinese officials are rich in experience and capable in governance. With the synergy of over 80 million party members, I don’t see any difficulty that cannot be surmounted.

 

第三个独特优势是，经过多年摸索，我们终于找到了一条符合中国国情且行之有效的发展道路。有人把它称为“中国模式”。中国道路很重要的一点，是处理好改革、发展和稳定的关系。作为一个发展中国家，发展是我们的第一要务。为了保障发展，必须有稳定的社会环境，同时通过改革为发展提供必要动力。

 

Our third unique advantage is the effective development path that suits China’s national conditions. We have found this path after years of exploration. Some call it the “Chinese model”. A very important aspect concerning the Chinese path is proper management of the relationship among reform, development and stability. For China, a developing country, development is the primary task. Development is to be ensured by a stable social environment and boosted by reform.

 

今天，我们正在打造一个改革、发展、稳定三者关系的升级版。比如发展，要彻底改变过去的发展方式，真正走一条绿色、循环、可持续的道路。这样就可以跨越中等收入陷阱。改革也是如此。

 

We are now working to upgrade the relationship among the three. Regarding development, we will completely change the past pattern of development and truly take a green, circular and sustainable approach. This will help us overcome the middle-income trap.

 

中国共产党十八届三中全会推出了一个300多项内容的改革方案。新一轮改革将是全方位、综合性的改革，不仅是经济，还包括政治、社会、文化等方方面面。稳定方面，就是要加强依法治国。三者关系的升级版将确保中国经济长久发展。这不仅惠及中国，也将惠及世界。

 

With respect to reform, the Third Plenum of the 18th CPC Central Committee introduced a package plan with over 300 specific measures. The new round of reform will be all-dimensional and wide-ranging, covering not only the economic field but also political, social, cultural and other fields. In terms of stability, we will strengthen the rule of law. An upgraded version of the relationship will guarantee sustained economic growth in China, which will benefit not only ourselves but also the rest of the world.

 

有几个趋势正在显现：中国在继续保持世界工厂地位的同时，将迅速成长为世界市场；在继续保持引进外资大国地位的同时，将迅速成长为一个对外投资的大国。去年中国引进外资1000多亿美元，对外投资快速升至900亿美元。中国对外经贸往来中出现更多的资本密集型、甚至技术密集型产品。用李克强总理的话来讲，就是实现从“中国制造”向“中国装备”的战略性转变。总之，中国的发展将造福整个世界。

 

There are several trends about China’s development that I want to explain here. China is fast becoming a world market while remaining a world factory, and will rapidly turn into a major overseas investor while remaining a major destination of overseas investment. Last year, China attracted over US$100 billion of investment from abroad, and overseas Chinese investment jumped to US$90 billion. More capital- and even technology-intensive products have been seen in China’s trade with the rest of the world. As Premier Li Keqiang puts it, we are achieving a strategic shift from “made in China” to “equipment from China”. Generally speaking, China’s development will be a blessing to the entire world.

 

张力奋：这次达沃斯年会，有全球40多国的领导人和2500位各领域精英。他们对中国下一步的发展，有很多问题要问。达沃斯年会传统上更多讨论经济贸易问题，但是，今年有很大变化，不少议程涉猎地缘政治、国际关系和区域等问题。

 

Zhang Lifen: Leaders from 40 countries and 2,500 elite representatives from various sectors have gathered at this year’s Davos meeting. They have many questions about where China will go from here. Traditionally, discussions at Davos have been dominated by economic and trade issues. But this year, it is very different. We hear more about China’s geopolitics, international relations and some regional issues.

 

在您抵达之前，日本首相安倍也到了达沃斯，并有一个高规格的主题演讲。他的演讲，主要分为两部分：主要部分，谈了安倍经济学以及他振兴日本经济的计划；另一部分则是他对亚太特别是对当下中国地缘政治的看法。讲话中，他对参拜靖国神社做了辩解。作为中国外长，您对此有何反应？

 

Before you came, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe was here and he gave a high-profile special address, which contained two parts. The bulk of his address was devoted to Abenomics and his plan to revive the Japanese economy. The rest included his views about geopolitics in the Asia-Pacific, especially with regard to China. He also defended his visit to the Yasukuni Shrine. As the Chinese foreign minister, what’s your reaction to that?

 

王毅：昨天在瑞士蒙特勒有记者问我同样的问题。我用了一句中国话，叫“越抹越黑”。

 

Wang Yi: In my answer to the same question by another journalist in Montreux yesterday, I used a Chinese saying, “the more one wants to wipe something out, the darker this something becomes.”

 

回答这个问题，首先要了解靖国神社问题的实质。靖国神社在二战前是百分之百的军国主义象征，战后保留了下来。靖国神社直到今天还在公开宣扬当年的对外侵略是正当的，公开声称太平洋战争是自卫，公开宣称远东国际军事法庭的审判是非法的，而且仍把14名甲级战犯当作神灵供奉在神社里。这样一个地方，日本领导人去合适吗？答案是非常清楚的。不仅中国、韩国和亚洲受害国家人民表示反对，就连日本国内都存在相当强烈的质疑声音。这次安倍去了之后，日本六大报纸中的五家都表示不赞成。

 

To get a clear answer to this question, we should first recognize the nature of the Yasukuni Shrine issue. The Shrine was without doubt a militarist symbol before World War II, and has been retained after the war. Even today, the Shrine openly claims that Japan’s past aggression was justified, that the Pacific War was waged for self defense, and that the trial by the International Military Tribunal for the Far East was illegal. The Shrine still honors 14 Class-A war criminals as divine spirits. Is that an appropriate place for a Japanese leader to visit? The answer is very clear. Not only the people from China, the ROK and other victimized Asian countries have expressed opposition to Abe’s visit. Even people within Japan are strongly questioning the visit. Five out of the six major newspapers in Japan have expressed disapproval of Abe’s visit.

 

这种做法的危害，在于突破了三个底线：一是中日关系底线。中日关系1972年实现正常化，一个重要前提是日本要正确对待历史，承认过去的侵略，吸取历史教训。日本首相向当年的甲级战犯表示敬意就突破了这一底线，是一种为战犯张目、为侵略翻案的行为。不管怎么解释，释放的信号都是清楚的。

 

The visit is damaging, as it has crossed three bottom lines. First, the bottom line of China-Japan relations. A key prerequisite for the normalization of China-Japan relations in 1972 was that Japan should treat history correctly, recognize its past aggression, and draw lessons from history. But this bottom line was breached when the Japanese prime minister paid homage to Class-A war criminals honored in the Shrine. A visit there is an act to clear the name for war criminals and overturn the history of aggression. The message it sends is clear no matter how it is explained.

 

二是突破了人类良知和国际正义的底线。你能想象欧洲的领导人去向当年的纳粹献花，表示敬意吗？这是不可想象的。安倍解释说，他是去双手合十表示敬意，同时宣誓不再发动战争。这完全不符合逻辑！在欧洲，如果出现同样情况，不仅不可思议，而且可能触犯法律。

 

Second, the bottom line of human conscience and international justice. Is it imaginable that a European leader should lay wreath and pay homage to the Nazis? Definitely not. Abe said he was there to express his sincere reverence and at the same time, promise not to wage war again. This makes no sense at all. It would be unthinkable or even unlawful if such things happened in Europe.

 

三是突破了战后国际秩序的底线。以联合国为代表的现代国际秩序是在世界反法西斯战争胜利基础上建立起来的。质疑、挑战世界反法西斯战争胜利成果，当然不可接受。我们还必须思考，为什么明知会遭到国内和国际社会强烈反对，仍然要坚持这么做？所有爱好和平的国家和人民都应对此保持警惕。

 

Third, the bottom line of the subsequent post-war international order. The contemporary international order represented by the United Nations was established on the basis of the victory of the world’s anti-fascist war. Any attempt to question or challenge the outcomes of the war is absolutely unacceptable. Moreover, we should also ask ourselves why Abe insisted on doing so, knowing full well the strong opposition at home and abroad. All peace-loving countries and peoples should be vigilant about it.

 

张力奋：这两天达沃斯论坛上，在涉及中国和亚太的议题中，许多人认为中日关系存在很大不确定因素。中方对日本首相参拜问题的立场非常明确，中方已表示不会与安倍这样的日本领导人再打交道。那么，如果外交努力已经穷尽，下一步会发生什么？最糟糕的情形是什么？双方会不会产生军事冲突？安倍在演讲中称日本绝不会再发动战争。但是，大家担忧，会不会出现不愿看到的结果，如军事冲突。王毅部长，您曾在东京5年，出任中国驻日大使。您认为下一步可能会发生什么？

 

Zhang Lifen: During the last two days’ Davos discussions on China and the Asia Pacific, many people talked about the great uncertainties in China-Japan relations. China’s position on the Japanese prime minister’s visit to the Shrine was very clear and it said it would not do business with leaders like Abe. Once diplomatic efforts have been exhausted, what will happen next? What is the worst-case scenario? Will there be a military conflict? Abe said in his remarks that Japan will never wage war again. Many people worry about a prospect that nobody wants to see – a military conflict, for example. Minister Wang Yi, you had been once the Chinese ambassador in Japan for five years, what do you think may happen next?

 

王毅：外交的职责，就是争取最好的前景和结果。否则要外交官做什么？现在重要的是，唤起国际社会警惕日本目前出现的动向，发出正义的声音。

 

Wang Yi: The purpose of diplomacy is to strive for the best prospects and results. That’s precisely what diplomats are for. What is important right now is to alert the international community to keep vigilance against the developments in Japan and send out a message of justice.

 

我看到，越来越多的日本民众和团体对安倍的做法表示反对。我相信这一趋势还会进一步发展。正因如此，日本当政者的做法是不可持续的，必须改弦更张。过去也发生过这种事情。1985年日本首相第一次参拜就遭到反对，最终他不得不放弃。此后小泉内阁时期也发生过。我想这次也一样，只是时间问题。

 

I have noted that more and more Japanese people and groups have expressed their opposition and I believe this trend will gather momentum. In view of this, the approach of the Japanese leaders is unsustainable and they must change course. Such things have happened in the past. When a former Japanese prime minister visited Yasukuni for the first time in 1985, he encountered opposition and had to give up the practice in the following years. The same thing happened to the Koizumi government. It will happen this time as well. It is only a matter of time.

 

至于中日关系，我们当然愿意与邻国和平相处，但和平相处是有原则、有底线的。中国站在正义一方。我相信当越来越多的国家和人民对安倍的做法表示质疑和反对时，形势就会发生变化。

 

With regard to China-Japan relations, we certainly want to live in peace with our neighbors. But we also have our principles and bottom lines. China is on the side of justice. I am sure when more and more countries and peoples question and oppose what Abe has done, the situation will change.

 

张力奋：在目前状况下，中日之间有什么沟通机制，来防范可能出现的意外或不愿看到的情况？

 

Zhang Lifen: Under the current circumstances, is there any mechanism of communication between China and Japan to avert situations that is surprising or no one wants to see?

 

王毅：当然有渠道。我们的大使还在东京，每天向日本人民解释和说明中国人民的立场，做日方的工作，敦促日方认识到这种做法的错误。这方面工作只要持之以恒做下去，会有效果的。

 

Wang Yi: Of course there are channels. The Chinese ambassador is still in Tokyo. Every day, he is explaining to the Japanese people the position of the Chinese people, engaging with the Japanese side and urging Japan to recognize that the visit is wrong. So long as the Chinese side continues along this path, it will have an impact.

 

张力奋：1972年中日邦交正常化以后，中日关系有过起伏。对于当前的中日关系，有人用冰点等各种各样的形容词。如果请您用一个词来概况当前的中日关系，您会用什么词？

 

Zhang Lifen: There have been ups and downs since the normalization of China-Japan relations in 1972. Some have described the current relationship as “at a freezing point”. How would you characterize the relationship right now?

 

王毅：当前的中日关系，当然很不好，正处于低谷。但任何事情都物极必反，走到头了，就会回头。我认为，只要是正确的，我们就应该坚持，最终正确的总会成为大家的共识。

 

Wang Yi: Certainly the relationship is very bad right now; it is at a low point. But things tend to bounce back when they reach the bottom. I believe we should stick to what we think is the right thing to do. Ultimately, what is right will become the consensus.