李克强总理接受英国《金融时报》总编巴伯专访实录（中英对照）

巴伯：我想把话题转向中国经济。中国正在推进历史性的经济转型。如果需要您为自己的工作成绩打分，从1到10，您会打几分呢？是8分？还是9分？

Barber: Let me turn to the Chinese economy where you are engaged in a historic transformation. If I ask you for your own report card, how many marks out of ten would you give yourself so far? Eight or nine?

李克强：如果我做的工作由自己来打分，这好像不符合一般的规则，也不符合我们应该由人民来评价的原则。到底是多少分，还是由人民来评价，我自己尽力而为。

Li Keqiang: It seems to be against the general rule for me to pass a score on how I have performed. I believe that it is up to the people to pass a judgment. As far as I am concerned, I will continue to do my best.

巴伯：您担心中国经济出现通胀，特别是房地产领域会出现泡沫吗？

Barber: Are you concerned about inflation, particularly in the real estate market?

李克强：中国这段时间的通胀率比较低，1月和2月份都不超过2%，甚至1月份只有百分之零点几。有人还认为中国是不是有通缩问题。当然我已经回答过，不存在这个问题，因为中国CPI指标三分之一以上由食品价格决定，而去年中国农业大丰收。但是国际大宗商品价格大幅下跌，给中国生产价格指数（PPI）确实造成了很大压力。从一定意义上讲，我们“被通缩”了。当然，我讲的这个“被通缩”是打引号的，并不是说我们现在出现了通缩。

Li Keqiang: Inflation has been quite low in the past several months in China. The figure for January and February this year was no more than two percent. In January, it was just zero point something percent. Some even think there is deflation in China. I have already addressed such a question before. China is not in deflation, because over one third of China’s CPI composition is food price, and we had a bumper harvest last year. But the tumble of international commodity prices did put our PPI under much pressure. So, in a certain sense, we are on the receiving end of deflation, but this does not mean there is deflation in China.

我们将对中国房地产市场采取多种措施，因地制宜，因制施策，加大保障房建设，保持平稳健康发展，既要鼓励自主改善型需求，也要防止泡沫。坦率讲，这几者之间不是完全一致的，我们需要找到平衡点，进行调节，这不是一件容易的事情，但是我们会努力做，而且相信能做到。

For the real estate market, we will continue to take a multi-pronged approach to meet the diverse needs in light of the different conditions of different localities. We will continue to build more government-subsidized housing units. We want to have steady and sound growth of the real estate market. The government will continue to encourage the home-buying for self use or improved living conditions, and guard against property bubble. Honestly, there may be certain conflict of interests among these goals, and we need to strike a proper balance among multiple goals and exercise proper regulation. This is not going to be easy, but we will do our best and we believe we can do it.

巴伯：中国政府已经开启了非常强有力的“反腐运动”，一些大老虎和苍蝇纷纷落马，这个运动结束了吗？

Barber: Premier Li, the Chinese government has been engaged in a very intense anti-corruption campaign. And you have caught many flies and quite a few tigers recently. Will this campaign ever end?

李克强：反对腐败对任何国家来说都是长期的任务，很难说什么时候开始什么时候结束。我们现在确实在加大反腐力度，同时也在加强制度建设，比如我们在推进简政放权，通过约束政府依法行政、担负应有的职责，激发市场活力，打掉寻租空间，铲除腐败，这是长期的斗争。如果要翻译成中文的话，这个词是“行动”，而不是“运动”。

Li Keqiang: Anti-corruption is a long-term task for any country. It is hard to say when the fight against corruption should start and when it should be brought to an end. It’s true that we are intensifying efforts in fighting corruption. In particular, we are very serious about institution building. The government is streamlining administration and delegating powers. We want to ensure that government power will be exercised with restraint, and the government will fully live up to its due responsibilities to boost market vitality, eliminate the space for rent seeking behaviors and uproot corruption. This will be a long-term struggle. If one is to translate “campaign” into Chinese, it should be “行动” instead of “运动” (译者加: or movement).

巴伯：这确实是一项非常强有力的反腐行动。我曾经跟一位知名的西方企业家谈这个问题，他说，他到中国的一家石油公司参观，几乎不认识在座的人，因为去年曾经在同一间会议室与他见面的人都已经“不见”了。

Barber: But it is a very powerful campaign, because I spoke to a very prominent Western businessman who went to see one of the Chinese oil companies, and he said he didn’t recognize anybody in the room, because the 30 people who were there last year had all disappeared.

李克强：中国大多数公司仍是运行正常的。我们不希望外国公司跟他们中断联系。

Li Keqiang: Most Chinese companies are still functioning normally. We hope foreign companies won’t cut off their ties with Chinese companies.

巴伯：我这种说法只是表示西方企业对中国政府反腐印象深刻，好像一挥魔法棒，这些腐败分子都消失了。另外在中国有种说法，称外国媒体中有些敌对势力。作为一名西方记者，我把自己看作是中国的朋友，这种说法让我感到担心。您觉得这只是一个说法而已吗？您是否能让我们在这个问题上感到放心？

Barber: It’s just the foreign companies are very impressed by the Chinese government’s magic act, and they disappear. But seriously, Mr. Premier, there has been some talk of hostile western forces in the media. As a visitor who comes from the West, who counts himself as a friend of China, I just worry about that. Can you just give me some reassurances that this is just talk?

李克强：自改革开放以来，来中国的外国记者越来越多，现在60多个国家在中国有常驻记者。我们欢迎外国记者来华并为他们提供便利条件。我相信会有越来越多的外国记者来中国，希望他们向世界传递客观的、真实的声音。当然，在任何一个国家，外国记者都要遵守驻在国的法律规定。有些外国人没来过中国，对中国不了解，有很多误解，这是正常的。媒体真实的报道会打消他们的疑虑。我相信会有更多的外国人到中国。中国持开放包容的态度，希望各国人民之间相互尊重、互学互鉴。关于采取敌对行为的，在中国境内就有暴力犯罪、分裂犯罪、恐怖行为，应该依法处理。另外，像贩毒行为，一些国家的量刑与中国不同，但中国有过鸦片战争的惨痛历史，对涉毒犯罪行为坚决予以打击，希望你们能够理解。

Li Keqiang: Since China started the reform and opening-up, an increasing number of foreign journalists have come to China. And now, over 60 countries have resident journalists in China and those journalists are welcome to work in China and favorable conditions will be provided for their work. I believe that there will only be more foreign correspondents coming to China. We hope that they will report to the world a China as it is. At the same time, foreign journalists need to abide by the laws and regulations in their host countries. Some foreigners may not have been to China and it’s natural that they may not know China that well or even have some misunderstanding about this country. Truthful reports by the media can help dispel their doubts. I believe more and more foreigners will come to China and see that China is an open and inclusive country which hopes for mutual respect and mutual learning between people of different countries. As for hostile activities, there are violent, separatist and terrorist crimes committed in China, and they should be handled in accordance with law. There may be different punishments for drug-related offences in other countries, but the Chinese people have a painful memory about the harm of opium, hence we resolutely combat all drug-related crimes. And I hope we will have your understanding about this.

巴伯：我们今天在香港厅会见。中央政府提出的有关香港政改的一揽子方案即将在香港立法会审议通过，您对这一方案是否满意？您是否担心香港会出现更多“占中”游行的混乱情况？

Barber: Mr. Premier, we are in the Hall of Hong Kong, are you satisfied that the package offered by the Beijing government will be adopted by the Hong Kong legislature? Or do you think we are still going to have problems, student unrest in Hong Kong? Are you worried about that?

李克强：对香港我们一直坚持“一国两制”、“港人治港”、高度自治的方针，支持香港特别行政区政府和行政长官依法施政。这段时间以来，香港虽然发生了这样那样的事情，但实践证明“一国两制”是正确的，香港会保持长期繁荣和稳定。香港厅的这幅画里，香港夜景灯光灿烂辉煌，蕴含了这三个关键点：“一国两制”是有生命力的；香港特区政府是有能力的；香港人民是有智慧的，有问题我们都能解决。

Li Keqiang: About Hong Kong, you know that we always follow the principles of “one country, two systems”, “the people of Hong Kong administering Hong Kong” and a high degree of autonomy. The Chinese central government will continue to support the Hong Kong SAR government and the Hong Kong SAR Chief Executive in administering the region in accordance with law. In spite of what happened recently in Hong Kong, we believe that past progress has shown that the principle of “one country, two systems” is the right way to take and that Hong Kong will maintain long-term stability and prosperity. The splendid night scene of Hong Kong in the picture behind us carries three key messages: the “one country, two systems” principle has strong vitality, the Hong Kong SAR government has full capability and the Hong Kong residents have their wisdom. We believe all issues can be properly settled.

巴伯：感谢您今天抽出这么多时间与我交谈，今天的交谈进一步激发了我与您进行下一次交谈的愿望，也许下次会谈可以是记录在案的交谈，在北京、伦敦甚至在香港进行。

Barber: Premier Li, thank you for your generous time for me as a visitor to Beijing. This conversation has merely whetted my appetite for the third conversation, maybe even on record, either in London or even in Beijing, or in Hong Kong.

李克强：你们已经记录在案了。我说的每一句话我都可以负责。我们谈的很好。你有连珠炮发问的能力。你还可以问最后一个问题。

Li Keqiang: I see you have recorded it. I can take responsibility for every sentence said. We’ve had a very good conversation and I see you do have the capacity to bombard me with a succession of questions. So, maybe one final question.

巴伯：我们今天是一个报纸两个记者。请皮林提问。

Barber: This is one newspaper, two journalists. I give this opportunity to Mr. Pilling.

皮林：中国政府采取了包括汇率、银行存款准备金以及房地产市场方面的一系列措施，外界感觉中国政府担心经济增速放缓的步伐可能比预想的要快。有数据显示，目前中国经济增长率低于7%，您是否担心中国经济放缓的速度会过快？

Pilling: Some of the actions being taken in China, Mr. Li, including exchange rates, reserve requirement, and in terms of housing market, suggest that you are worried that the economy is slowing down more quickly than you would like. And there is some data that shows that the economy is growing well below 7%. Are you worried that the economy is slowing down too fast?

李克强：我现在还无法向你说明一季度中国经济增速是多少。过一段时间，中国统计部门将依法公布，我们也不会干预这个数据。但是从总体运行情况看，中国就业情况总体稳定。这是十分重要的。因为我们稳增长根本上是为了保就业。我们的确有经济下行压力，所以从去年四季度到现在，我们在财政货币政策方面都采取了微调政策，当然不是量宽，而是定向调控，应该说是起作用的。我们的目标是把经济运行保持在合理区间，不仅要实现7%左右的增长率，而且要实现比较充分的就业，居民收入不断增长，环境有所改善。现在看，我们一方面通过财政货币政策的预调微调，另一方面通过政府简政放权转变职能激发市场活力，最终顶住经济下行压力。我们有能力保持经济运行在合理区间。中国目前经济总量已经超过十万亿美元，今年再增长7%左右的速度应该说是不容易的，需要眼光、耐力和勇气。到年底的时候我们要交出答卷，当然是由人民来打分，也欢迎巴伯先生来打分。

Li Keqiang: I cannot give you the data of China’s GDP growth in the first quarter now. In some time, it will be released by China’s statistical bureau in accordance with law and we will not intervene in those data. On the whole, there has been stability in employment. This is a very important thing, because the ultimate goal of steady growth is to ensure employment. It’s true that our economy is still under downward pressure. Hence, since the fourth quarter of last year, we have made fine-tuning adjustments to our fiscal and monetary policies, but these adjustments are not a QE policy. Instead, they are targeted regulatory steps and they have paid off. Our goal is to keep China’s economic operation within the proper range. We want to achieve not just an approximately 7% growth, but also fairly sufficient employment, increase in household income and improvement of the environment. These preemptive measures and fine-tuning adjustments to our fiscal and monetary policies as well as the government’s self-targeted reform of scaling back administrative power to give more play to the role of the market have managed to offset the downward pressure on economic growth. We have the ability to keep economic operation within the proper range. The Chinese economy has become so large, amounting to 10 trillion US dollars. So, it won’t be easy to achieve another 7% growth this year. This requires vision, perseverance and courage. When the end of the year comes and we need to turn in the report card, we shall ask the people and you too, Mr. Barber, are also welcome to pass the score on how we have performed.