Alessandra Galloni: So China and the United States then are inevitably headed for a clash of civilizations?
文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/8774.html
加洛尼：中美是不是会不可避免地走向文明的冲突？文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/8774.html
文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/8774.html
王毅：所谓文明冲突的说法是一个伪命题。人类社会已经进入21世纪，人类文明也已经发展到很高程度，如果现在还鼓吹甚至制造文明冲突，就是开历史的倒车。文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/8774.html
文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/8774.html
Wang Yi: The so-called clash of civilizations is a false argument. We are already in the 21st century and the human civilization is quite advanced. If anyone is trying to clamor for or even to create the clash of civilizations, he is trying to reverse the wheels of history.文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/8774.html
文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/8774.html
中国历来主张，文明没有高低优劣之分，各种文明都建立在自身深厚的历史人文积淀中，都有其独特的价值。这个世界本来就是丰富多彩的，不同文明应该相互尊重、互学互鉴，共同推动人类进步和发展。鼓吹“文明冲突论”的人，心灵深处恐怕残留着某种西方文明优越论的潜意识。他们看来没有准备好，也不想接受任何一个非西方国家的发展和振兴。但这是不公平的。任何国家都是平等的，都有发展的权利。西方国家已经先发展起来了，其他国家也要加快发展，这是我们应有的权利。只有所有国家都发展起来，我们这个世界才能够实现繁荣稳定，我们才能共同建设好人类共同居住的这个地球村。文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/8774.html
文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/8774.html
We advocate that all civilizations are equal and no one is superior to others. All civilizations are grounded in the unique history and culture of that particular country, and each civilization has its own unique values. The world is a diverse and colorful place. What we call for is mutual respect and mutual learning among different civilizations and joint efforts to seek common progress.文章源自英文巴士-https://www.en84.com/8774.html
For those who clamored for clash of civilizations, subconsciously they still believe in the superiority of Western civilizations. They are not prepared to accept the development and revitalization of non-Western civilizations. This is not fair, because all countries are equal and all countries are entitled to develop. Western countries have developed already and other countries also need faster development. This is our integral right. We believe that only when all countries enjoy development, can our world be a prosperous and stable one, and can we live in peace in this global village and on this planet that we call home.
Alessandra Galloni: So how does China convince the United States that it and its political system are not a threat to the US, or should not have to, anyway?
加洛尼：中方如何能够说服美方，中国以及中国的政治制度对美国并不构成、也不应该构成威胁？
王毅：美国的制度和模式，是美国人民的选择，我们从不干涉美国的内政。同时，中国特色社会主义制度，是中国人民的选择，并且已经在中国大地上取得巨大成功，美方也应尊重中国人民的这一选择。只要双方都遵守联合国宪章的宗旨和原则，特别是恪守不干涉内政原则，尊重各国的主权，不同社会制度的国家并不会相互构成威胁。中方始终愿同美方遵循和平共处五项原则，建立和发展长期稳定的友好合作关系。这是中方的既定政策。但美国恰恰相反，不断向中国施加压力，动辄指责和抹黑中国。事实就摆在我们的面前。比如，中国全国人民代表大会从来没有通过任何涉及美国内部事务的提案，而美国国会却一个又一个地审议通过各种粗暴干涉中国内部事务的议案；中国的军舰和飞机从来没有到美国周边去展示力量，但恰恰是美国不断派遣军舰飞机到中国家门口来耀武扬威；中国从来没有制裁过任何一家美国企业，我们欢迎美国企业赴华投资兴业，并为他们提供良好营商环境，但美方却千方百计打压中国的企业，并对中国企业实施所谓单边制裁和长臂管辖，限制中国的发展权利。因此，如果说到威胁，不是中国在威胁美国，而是美国在威胁中国。要解决的也是如何消除美国对中国的各种威胁。
Wang Yi: The US system and model are the choices of the American people. We do not intervene in the internal affairs of the US. By the same token, socialism with Chinese characteristics is the choice of the Chinese people, and it has already been proved hugely successful in China. The United States should also respect this choice made by the Chinese people.
For countries with different systems, as long as they observe the purposes and principles of the UN Charter, particularly the principle of non-interference in internal affairs, and respect countries’ sovereignty, there won’t be any threat to anyone. For China, we stand ready to work with the United States on the basis of the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence to build and grow this long-term and stable relationship of peace and friendship. That is our set policy. However, the United States is doing the opposite. It has been upping its pressure on China, and it has been blaming and bashing China, and the facts are clear for everyone to see.
For example, China’s National People’s Congress has never introduced any bill on the internal affairs of the United States. However, the US Congress has reviewed and adopted one bill after another that blatantly interferes in China’s internal affairs. China has never sent its military vessels and aircraft to the neighborhood of the United States to flex muscles, yet the US naval ships and airplanes have been flexing muscles at China’s doorsteps. China has never sanctioned any US businesses. On the contrary, we welcome US businesses to invest in China, and we have provided them with a sound business environment. However, the United States has tried every opportunity and means to suppress Chinese companies. It has introduced unilateral sanctions against Chinese companies by exercising long-arm jurisdiction, and tried to limit China’s development rights. So talking about threat, it is not that China is threatening the US, but the US is threatening China. And the issue is how to address the US threat to China.
Alessandra Galloni: Does China believe that eventually it will have to have a military presence in the Middle East to ensure the security of its energy supplies. At the moment, China relies on the US security umbrella, but does China think that it would have to take more responsibility for itself in the Middle East?
加洛尼：中方是否认为需要在中东地区保持军事存在以确保自身的能源供应安全？目前中国和其他国家一样，都依赖美国在中东提供的安全保障，中国是否认为也应当在中东承担更多的责任？
王毅：如果说中国以及其他国家依赖美国在中东提供安全保障，我想很多中东国家都不会认可这种说法。
Wang Yi: Well, I’m afraid that many countries in the Middle East would not agree that the United States is providing security guarantee for China and countries in the region.
试问，几十年来，美国在中东发动了多少战争？造成了多大损失？给中东各国人民带来了多大灾难？这是在为中东提供安全保障吗？美国的做法不仅没有使中东保持稳定和发展，反而陷入了无尽无止的动荡或贫困中。美国的做法实际上只是在维护自身利益，并没有惠及中东国家。
Think about this: In the past decades, how many wars has the US started in the Middle East? How much damage and devastation has it brought to the people of the region? Is the US providing security guarantee in the Middle East? What the US has been doing is not bringing stability and development to the Middle East, but rather endless turbulence and persistent poverty. In addition, the United States is taking actions out of its own interests, which has not benefited countries in the Middle East.
我认为，国与国之间建立起相互信任，同时通过互利合作形成利益融合，这才是长久也是可靠的安全保障，而不是仅仅依靠军事力量的威慑。就地区安全而言，中方根据联合国决议以及中东地区国家愿望，一直在努力为中东的安全稳定作出贡献。比如，中方向中东派出了1800位维和人员，遍布地区各国；中方已经坚持十多年在亚丁湾护航，保护所有过往亚丁湾的各国船舶；我们还同中东国家举办中东安全论坛，提议摆脱陈旧的冷战思维，探讨打造共同、综合、合作、可持续的新安全框架。中方将会继续为促进中东的和平、安全与发展发挥建设性作用。
In our view, the most enduring and reliable security guarantee would be for countries to build mutual trust and align their interests through mutually beneficial cooperation. Security guarantee just cannot be achieved only with military power.
Responding to the call of the United Nations and based on the will of countries in the region, China has been working to contribute to the security in the Middle East. For example, we have sent over 1,800 peacekeepers to the Middle East in every corner of the region. Our naval vessels have been conducting escort missions in the Gulf of Aden for over a decade, protecting ships of all countries passing that body of water. We have also initiated a Middle East Security Forum with regional countries, calling on countries to reject the old-fashioned cold-war mentality and put in place a new security architecture that underpins common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security. Going forward, we will continue to play a constructive role in promoting peace, security and development in the Middle East.
Alessandra Galloni: Climate. The world is looking to Chinese leadership on climate. In particular, after the US has exited the Paris regime, is China going to increase its emissions reductions goals before COP 26 in Glasgow?
加洛尼：关于气候变化问题，中方在气候变化问题上发挥了领导作用，特别是在美国退出巴黎协定之后，中方是否愿意进一步提高减排目标？是否愿意为格拉斯哥气候变化大会作出贡献？
王毅：中国是世界上最大的发展中国家，我们的工业化进程还没有完成，需要加快发展进程，让中国人民也能够过上更加美好的生活。同时，我们意识到中国作为一个大国，应该承担应尽的国际责任和义务。因此，中国积极参与了巴黎协定谈判，在谈判最关键的时候，为促成最终达成巴黎协定发挥了重要作用。中方既然签署了，就一定会履行承诺，百分之百地完成我们向世界宣布的减排目标。
Wang Yi: China is the world’s largest developing country, and our industrialization process is still ongoing. We need to develop faster to make life even better for the Chinese people. At the same time, we do realize that as a major country, we must shoulder our due international responsibilities and obligations.
Therefore, China took an active part in the negotiation of the Paris Agreement, and played a major role in securing the final agreement at the most critical moment of the negotiation. About the Paris Agreement, since we have signed it, we will implement it 100 percent. We have announced to the whole world our emission reduction targets, and we intend to meet these targets.
同时，我们已经确定了新的发展理念，追求绿色、环保、可持续的发展，也就是说改变过去只追求GDP的增长速度，而是寻求实现更高质量的发展。中方愿同国际社会一道，排除各种困难干扰，继续推进落实巴黎协定。今年，中方将主办生物多样性公约缔约方大会。我们愿为会议成功作出自己的贡献。同时我们也将同法国等志同道合的国家一道，为推进全球应对气候变化发挥作用。
For China’s own development, we have been shifting to a new philosophy. We want to seek green, environmentally-friendly and sustainable development. In the past, the attention was paid to high GDP growth, but now we focus on achieving high-quality development.
China will continue to work with the international community to overcome all challenges and difficulties to ensure that the Paris Agreement will be implemented. This year, China is going to host the 15th meeting of the Conference of the Parties (COP 15) to the Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD), and we will make our own contributions to ensure its success. We will also work with other like-minded countries like France to contribute to the global fight against climate change.
Alessandra Galloni: You said you will meet your commitment. The question is will you ratchet up your goal? Will you make your target more ambitious as many countries have been asked to do before COP 26, so go beyond your commitment in Paris? Are you prepared to do that? If so, when?
加洛尼：中方是否做好准备提升减排承诺？会不会有更加有雄心的目标？因为很多国家在格拉斯哥会议之前都被呼吁进一步提升减排目标。中方是否做好了准备，何时愿意这样做？
王毅：中国是一个负责任的国家，既然说了，就会做到。我们不会像有些国家那样，说得好听，但实际上做不到。比如应对气候变化基金，发达国家承诺每年向发展中国家提供1000亿美元，但是到现在还没有实现。中方不需要说很多大话，去赢得所谓赞誉。我们准备踏实实地把承诺的事情做好。如果一个14亿人口的大国履行好减排承诺，那本身就是对世界的最大贡献，也是对人类发展的最大贡献。我可以举几个数字。比如，单位GDP减排强度指标，中国每年都提前完成计划。又如新能源汽车保有量，中国已经占有全世界的一半；可再生能源装机量，中国已经占到全世界的1/3。这些工作我们都在扎扎实实地做。中国不是用口号，而是用行动，参与国际社会应对气候变化的努力。
Wang Yi: China is a responsible country; we will match our words with concrete deeds. Unlike other countries, they may talk a lot, but they don’t deliver. For example, in terms of climate change fund, for developed countries, they pledged to provide US$100 billion annually to developing countries. But so far, they haven’t done that.
Rather than talking big and fishing for praise, we will take concrete measures to deliver our commitments. China has 1.4 billion people. If we can meet our target in emissions reduction, that in itself would be the biggest contribution to the world and to the development of humanity.
To give you some examples, in terms of the emission intensity of China’s GDP, we have met the target every year ahead of schedule. In terms of new energy vehicles, we have over 50 percent of the world’s total. And China has about one third of installed capacity of the world’s renewable energy. So China has taken solid steps to fight climate change. We are not making big statements, but we are making a big difference with concrete measures. And we are contributing our share to the international response to climate change.
Alessandra Galloni: We are in Europe, and China and the EU are going to hold an important summit in September this year. One of the topics will be climate, and the possibility of an EU climate deal. What does China expect to gain from the EU, as part of a grand bargain on climate?
加洛尼：中欧将于今年9月举行一次非常重要的峰会，气候变化协议有望成为峰会成果的一部分。中方是否期待从欧方那里得到一些什么积极的成果，作为应对气候变化总体协议的一部分？
王毅：这是一个很具体的问题。昨天我同德国外长马斯专门就此进行了讨论。我们注意到新一届欧盟机构提出“绿色新政”，雄心勃勃，要赶超时代发展潮流。欧盟国家都是发达国家，有必要也有能力在全球绿色发展上发挥更加重要的示范作用。同时实现绿色发展，走可持续发展，也已成为中国的既定国策。比如中方积极倡议建设绿色“一带一路”，并为此出台了很多政策和支持措施。今年预定举行的中欧峰会议题很多，我们首先要共同发出维护多边主义、维护自由贸易、维护国际法权威和国际公平正义的声音，共同应对当前国际社会面临的各种风险挑战。同时中方也愿意同欧盟探讨在绿色经济方面加强互利合作。在这一问题上，中欧优势互补。欧盟有绿色发展的技术，中国有巨大的绿色产品市场，欧洲设备可以在中国市场上发挥应有作用。我们还可以探讨建立中欧绿色伙伴关系。我认为这会得到大多数欧洲国家的支持。
Wang Yi: This is a specific issue. I discussed it with German Foreign Minister Maas yesterday. We have noticed that the new EU institution has introduced this ambitious green deal. Indeed, this is what we need given the current trend of the world. The EU is mainly composed of developed countries, so it must and can play a more important exemplary role in implementing green development in the world.
At the same time, China is promoting green and sustainable development at home. We have made it a state policy. For example, the BRI is designed to pursue green development and we have introduced a lot of policies and measures for this purpose.
There will be a packed agenda during this year’s summit. China and the EU should send out a joint message to support multilateralism, free trade, the authority of international law, international fairness and justice, and work together to address the risks and challenges confronting the international community. Meanwhile, we are ready to work with the EU to explore mutually beneficial cooperation on green economy. In this area, we each have our comparative advantages. The EU has the technologies and know-how on green development, while China has a huge market for green products. We believe that European equipment can play its role in China. We can also explore the possibility of a China-EU green partnership. I believe most countries in Europe will support this initiative.
Alessandra Galloni: Two more topics. On Hong Kong, what evidence does China have that Britain and the United States are encouraging the protesters in Hong Kong?
加洛尼：关于香港问题，中国有哪些证据表明英国和美国煽动香港的抗议活动？
王毅：这样的证据和事实举不胜举，俯拾皆是。任何人看到香港街头情况之后都会得出同样的结论。
Wang Yi: Well, there is a long list of evidence. Anyone who sees what is happening on the streets of Hong Kong will arrive at the right conclusion.
比如，一些西方国家的外交人员，包括一些非政府组织，频繁跟那些街头暴力分子会见，给他们撑腰打气。再比如，一些西方势力不仅不批评那些严重违法犯罪分子，反而指责依法执法的香港警察，企图摧毁香港的法治。还有些国家的议会甚至通过了干涉香港内部事务的法案。这些不都是事实吗？不容抵赖。
As we have seen, diplomatic personnel and NGOs of some Western countries have had many meetings with the rioters to embolden them. And instead of criticizing the law-breaking activities of some radicals, they are criticizing the police in Hong Kong for performing their duties according to law, with the aim of compromising the rule of law in Hong Kong. The legislatures of some countries have even introduced bills that interfere in Hong Kong’s internal affairs. These are all clear facts that cannot be denied.
这些以双重标准干涉中国香港内部事务的做法实际上并没有得逞。香港形势目前正在逐渐恢复稳定，香港的法治也在重新走上正轨，“一国两制”方针将会继续坚定贯彻执行。香港绝大多数同胞都会意识到，“一国两制”才是香港长期繁荣稳定的最重要保障。
Such double standards and practices trying to interfere in the internal affairs of China’s Hong Kong have not succeeded. The situation in Hong Kong is gradually improved and law and order is being restored. And “one country, two systems” will continue to be implemented resolutely. The majority of people in Hong Kong have realized that “one country, two systems” is the most important guarantee for Hong Kong’s long-term prosperity and stability.
Alessandra Galloni: So there is not another path for Hong Kong, a different path?
加洛尼：对香港来说没有其他路径吗？没有其他的道路，是这样吗？
王毅：香港是中国的一部分，“一国两制”已经以基本法的方式确定下来。当然要依法行事。现在香港有些年轻人，受到外部蛊惑，竟然举着外国国旗，幻想成为某国公民，呼吁外国解救。他们完全背叛了自己的列祖列宗，忘记了中国人的身份认同，令人不齿。这些人根本不能代表香港的绝大多数同胞。
Wang Yi: Hong Kong is part of China. The “one country, two systems” is established by the Basic Law of the Hong Kong SAR. So everything must be done in accordance with the law. Some young people in Hong Kong have been misled. They have even waved the flags of foreign countries, imagining themselves as citizens of certain countries and hoping that foreign countries will come and rescue them. By doing that, they have completely betrayed their own roots and forgotten the identity of themselves as Chinese. This is disgraceful. They do not represent the majority of people in Hong Kong.
Alessandra Galloni: Since the handover in 1997, a lot has been done to integrate Hong Kong into China. Vast resources have been spent to win the hearts and minds of the people of Hong Kong. And yet, at times, they resist, they seem to rebuff the overtures. What is there left to do?
加洛尼：自从1997年回归之后，我们看到有很多努力让香港融入中国大陆，大陆也调动了很多资源努力赢取香港民心，但是我们看到这些做法在香港受到了一些抵制，您对此怎么看？
王毅：这恰恰再次证明有一些外部势力唯恐香港不乱。他们千方百计想搞乱香港，进而影响甚至干扰中国的整体发展。为此无所不用其极，频繁制造街头暴力，导致香港法治受到严重损害。但这一现象是暂时的，不可能长久。在香港同胞自身努力下，在中国中央政府支持下，香港会很快恢复稳定和法治，大陆和香港之间的经济联系也会更加紧密。中央政府已经制定了一个宏大的经济战略，就是香港、澳门和广东形成一个大湾区，大湾区的建设启动，将会成为中国发展的又一重要引擎，不仅将给香港发展注入持久动力，也会带动整个中国经济的发展。英国、美国等很多国家在香港都有重要利益。维护好香港的繁荣、稳定和法治，符合所有各方利益。
Wang Yi: It once again shows that some foreign elements are trying whatever they can to stir up trouble in Hong Kong. They want to destabilize Hong Kong in order to hold back and even disrupt the overall development in China. They have exploited every opportunity to bring violence to the streets, which seriously undermines the rule of law in Hong Kong. But these situations are temporary and will not last long. With the effort of the people of Hong Kong and the support from the central government, stability and law and order will soon be restored in Hong Kong. The economic ties between the mainland and Hong Kong will only grow closer and stronger.
The central government has introduced an ambitious economic development initiative, the Greater Bay Area of Hong Kong, Macao and Guangdong. With that, we will build another important engine for China’s development. It will provide sustained impetus to Hong Kong’s development and it will also contribute to China’s economy in the long run. Many countries including the UK and the US have major interests in Hong Kong. It therefore serves everyone’s interests to uphold prosperity, stability and the rule of law in Hong Kong.
Alessandra Galloni: At what point does China run out of patience with North Korea?
加洛尼：关于朝核问题，中方是否会对朝鲜失去信心？什么时候会对朝鲜失去耐心？
王毅：朝核问题的关键不在中国是否有耐心，而是美朝之间是否具有相向而行的诚意。
Wang Yi: The issue is not about China’s patience, but about the sincerity of the US and the DPRK to reach out and meet each other halfway.
中国的立场是一贯和清晰的。我们主张通过对话实现半岛无核化，同时维护半岛的和平稳定，在此过程中解决好朝鲜方面的合理和正当关切。
China’s position has been consistent and clear-cut. We have called for dialogue to achieve denuclearization, and peace and stability of the Peninsula. And in that process, the reasonable and legitimate concerns of the DPRK need to be addressed.
特朗普总统同金正恩委员长在新加坡达成了一个很好的协议。其中有两条重要共识：一是要在半岛建立永久和平机制；二是要实现半岛的完全无核化。中方对此表示支持，因为这两条恰恰是我们多年来希望达成的目标。
President Trump and Chairman Kim Jong-un reached a good agreement during their Singapore meeting, which includes two important common understandings: first, to establish a permanent peace mechanism on the Korean Peninsula and second, to achieve full denuclearization. China supports both of them. They are exactly what China has been working for over these many years.
如何实现这两个目标？需要一个切实可行的路线图。中方提出了我们的建议，就是按照“分阶段，同步走”的思路，并行推进并最终同时加以实现。这是中方总结20多年来经验提出的建议，是合情合理的。俄罗斯同中方持有同样立场，韩国也接受了这一建议。据我们了解，美国不少人士，包括处理半岛核问题的一些关键人物，也开始认为要“分阶段，同步走”，但目前美国内似乎还没有形成真正的共识。
To achieve these two objectives requires a practicable roadmap. That is why China has put forth a dual-track approach, that is, the US and the DPRK will take phased and synchronized steps to proceed and advance these two processes together, so that the two objectives can be achieved in parallel. This is a reasonable proposal that is based on our experience of dealing with the issue for the past two decades and more.
Russia is on the same page with China and the ROK has come on board as well. We also know that inside the US, many people, including some key figures who have been dealing with the nuclear issue, also see the value of this phased and synchronized approach. However, there is yet to be a real consensus within the US.
我们希望美朝之间能够就路线图尽快达成一致。中方愿为此继续发挥积极作用。我们不能让来之不易的缓和局面再次失去，也不能够让和平的窗口再度关闭。
We hope that the US and the DPRK can come to an agreement on the roadmap as early as possible. China is ready to continue to play a positive role for that to be realized. We just cannot afford to let the de-escalation that has been so hard to achieve slip away. We cannot afford to let the window of opportunity for peace be closed again.
Alessandra Galloni: Last question. Could we come back to the very first question in this interview. What are the lessons that China is learning from this coronavirus?
加洛尼：回到最开始的问题，中方从应对疫情过程中，吸取了什么样的经验或者教训？
王毅：人类社会就是在同各种疾病进行抗争的过程中不断发展起来的。任何国家都会有这样一个过程，中国也不例外。
Wang Yi: Human society has evolved in the fight against various epidemics. That is the case for all countries and also for China.
病毒今天可能发生在这个国家，明天也许发生在另一个国家，因此，公共卫生安全是国际社会的共同挑战。应该说，中国在这方面已经做得很好了。疫情之后，中方当然会认真总结经验，进一步提高公共卫生水平，包括这方面的能力建设。同时，我们也会帮助世界上其他卫生系统脆弱的国家提升能力。中国同非洲正在开展八大合作计划，其中就有公共卫生合作计划。中方将继续同非洲国家开展卫生领域合作，就像当年我们挺身而出帮助非洲国家抗击埃博拉疫情一样。
The epidemic may happen in one country today and it may happen in any other country tomorrow. Public health security is therefore a common challenge for the world. But to be fair, China has done a good job so far in responding to the epidemic. When the epidemic is over, we will of course look back and summarize experiences to see what can be done to improve the public health services in China, including our capacity.
As we improve ourselves, we will also help with the capacity building of other countries that are still weak in public health system. For example, we have introduced the eight major initiatives for China’s cooperation with Africa, one of which focuses exactly on public health. So we will continue to promote public health cooperation with countries in Africa, just like what we did to help during the Ebola outbreak.
其他国家同样如此。美国2009年发生的甲型H1N1流感造成了很大损害，影响到214个国家和地区。美方也需要认真总结经验，吸取教训。总之，公共卫生是个国际社会共同面对的课题，需要各国加强合作，形成合力。
Other countries also have a part to play in this regard. When the H1N1 flu started in the United States in 2009, the virus also caused serious damage, affecting 214 countries and regions in the world. The US also needs to look back and learn from the experiences and lessons. All in all, public health is a common subject for the entire world. We need to work together to combine our strengths.
